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Larry Howard

The Southern Rock of Ages
Former Grinderswitch guitarist Larry Howard talks about his old band, his friends like The Allman Brothers and Marshall Tucker Band and his journey toward a higher calling.

by Michael Buffalo Smith
April 2001

I wanted to find out where you were born and raised and first became interested in music. 

I was born in Winterhaven, in central Florida, in 1950. Winterhaven is close to Disney World, about 20 miles, but when I grew up there was nothing there but swamps and orange trees. I was born in Florida and went to school there, I didn’t graduate from high school. I wasn’t really interested in it too much. I had some cousins that were ahead of me in school and when they would come home in the afternoons I would come home with them and do homework with them and they taught me a lot. When I started school I was probably already on the 3rd or 4th grade level. I got bored with school pretty quick. 

I grew up there in central Florida and when I was 14 or 15 I had an opportunity to be around my dad and his brother who had a bluegrass band when we were growing up and as far back as I remember I was around musicians. Vassar Clements used to come by and sit in in my dad’s band when I was a little kid. My mom has a picture of me as a kid at about 18 months old sitting on the couch at home with the jumbo Gibson guitar and my arms wrapped around it. That’s pretty young. When I was 13-14 a man named General Van Fleet in Florida, who was a prominent general in WWII, paid for me to attend a special education school at the University of Miami for two summers where I was able to study theory and composition at the University of Miami which was an interesting thing. When I first got started in music I was interested in classical music. So, I went there to study theory and composition and composing. 

The second year I went there Count Basie was on campus doing a clinic for the whole summer and had his solo chair players from the rest of his band. The rest of the people came out of the college. I went to audition and made it into his band there at the school. I was able to spend the next six weeks with Count Basie playing everyday in the summer music program at age 14. This culminated in a large concert at the Orange Bowl with Count Basie. After coming home from doing that some guy in town -- and understand this was 1964 and at that time there were no local bands -- this guy knew that I was heavily into music came to me and wanted me to play guitar in their band. I had never played a guitar but they convinced me to try it and they got a guy named Carl Chambers who had written “Close Enough to Perfect” for Alabama and “I’m a Brand New Man” and a bunch of other stuff. 

He also played with the Bellamy Brothers and Ricky Skaggs. I went to him and he physically put my hands on a guitar and then showed me how to play some songs and in six weeks I played my first gig as a guitar player. At that time the band was called The United Sounds. That is the band I was telling you that Les Dudek joined later. Then Les and I played in another group in the '60s called Blue Truth, the first progressive all-original material band that we did. I guess that was 1965-66 when Les and I played with Ricky Burnette, the drummer from Grinderswitch We started playing and touring then. We did all original music and toured with and backed up lots of bands coming through Florida.

How did that evolve into Grinderswitch?

We had a group together in Florida and when Duane got killed, of course we all grew up playing the same circuit in Florida. Dickey’s band, The Jokers, and Gregg and Duane and the Allman Joys. We all played the pier in Daytona and all the same places in the mid-60s. We all knew each other and played together at times. When Duane got killed Dickey started a band called Solo -- he actually recruited the keyboard player that we had at the time, Peter Celeste, he is from Sarasota. He and a couple of other guys left Florida to come to Macon and play in Dickey’s band. 

Then, after the band had been together for a short period of time and all these guys had moved up to Macon to play in the band, then they decided that they would continue The Allman Broyhers Band. The record company and the people in the band did not want Dickey to do a solo project at the same time he was trying to keep the band going without Duane. Berry was still alive at this time but he had brought these guys to Macon, moved these guys up there and he did not want to just break the group up after just having moved them up there. He contacted Les, and Les came to Macon to take Dickey’s place in the band Solo and this was to go on to become its own entity. So, Les took Dickey’s place in Dickey’s own band. That is how Les ended up playing on Brothers and Sisters because he took Dickey’s place in Dickey’s band. So, Les was here in town with the band that Dickey put together when Duane died. Les went into the studio and played on “Ramblin’ Man” and “Jessica.” That’s where the connection between Dickey and Les came in. During that period of time Joe Dan Petty was a roadie for the brothers. Joe Dan had been the drummer for Dickey’s band in Florida, the Jokers. 

Joe Dan was up here in Macon and just working for them and not playing with anyone. He told Les that he would like to start playing again and put together a band. Les said he had just left a band in Florida and the drummer and guitar player are still down there and Danny Roberts had taken Les’s place. Danny was in a band when we left to come to Macon and Danny went with a band called Mud Crutch. Me and Danny and Ricky were playing with a band when Les left to come up here. We kept the band together and then Les called and said we should come up and meet with Joe Dan and jam and play with him and see what would happen. Me and Ricky came up and met Joe Dan and the day we got here we were out at the Brothers' farm and Joe Dan fell off a horse and broke his collarbone. We were up here to play with Joe Dan but after the accident we couldn’t play with him. So, we sat down and had a long talk about what we wanted to accomplish musically and what our musical philosophies were. Then we went back home and packed all our stuff and moved to Macon and started a band called Grinderswitch without ever having played with Joe Dan. The band was formed on the basis of similar philosophies and ideals. The band Mud Crutch went with Danny and moved to Colorado and tried to get something going and began recording with Shelter. That band is where Tom Petty came from. He was the lead singer in Mud Crutch. They did some recordings and demos but could never get a deal. The band split up and the next group that formed with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. Tom is from Gainesville and he was in Gainesville at the time and this whole crew was playing together in different formations in different bands at that time.

 

How did Dru Lumbar end up in the band?

Here is another point of interest that is odd to me. I have been living out in the country outside of Macon and I have been out there for about seven years and I have just moved into a house in Macon and then I was standing on the front porch, just in the past two weeks and realized that this house that I am in now is just two doors down from the original house that I moved into when I came to Macon back in 1972. So, after thirty years, I am right back on the same street that I started on. 

That house that I moved into then was Dr. John’s Band -- Alex Taylor’s Band -- that was Chuck Leavell and Lou Mullinax and all those guys were in that house. Lou Mullinax was the drummer that played with Alex Taylor and also Dr. John. But he od’ed here and that broke the band up and that house was available. So, me, and Joe Dan and Ricky moved into that house.Then I was at Grant’s Lounge here in Macon one night and heard a guitar player and singer playing in a band called the King James Version. I liked them and when it was over with I went to the Carousel, a barbeque place, and here is this guy standing there from the band and I went up to him and told him how much I liked his guitar and singing and he asked what I was doing and he asked what I was doing. I told him that me and Joe Dan and Ricky were in this band together and I said that it was too bad he was in that band because he should come and jam with us. He told me that was his final performance with the band and that band went separate ways and Dru came to our house and played together for about six days and he went home and got his stuff and came to live at our house.

That is where Grinderswitch was formed, two doors down from where I am living now. When Ricky and I decided to live in Macon and go home and get our stuff and move we had been at the Big House hanging out for a month and when we went home to Florida Berry got killed. We left town to get our stuff and when we got back Berry was gone.

Do you have special memories of Grinderswitch and the people in it? Also, elaborate on the members, Joe Dan, his passing, memories of the band.

The biggest high point of that band was the fact that all the members of the band were together for about eight years, with me in the band, and after I left they did a couple of albums. During that period of time, Gregg would kid us about never coming home. We worked, realistically, all the time. We would go on the road with the Allman Brothers and then we toured for several years with us and Charlie Daniels and Marshall Tucker Band. We would go out for 40-45 days at a time and come home for 3-4 days and then do it again. Then we booked clubs and everything we could between that.

This is the only band I was ever in where we literally worked every night we possibly could. Through all of that the four original members -- and then later on Steve -- I think the high point of that band to me was the fact that it was really a family. We went through unbelievable good times and bad times and everyone to this day is very respectful of each other. We are brothers and more in the real sense than blood brothers. We had incredible highs and lows together. Ricky and I started playing in a jazz, dixieland band together when we were about 13 years old. We had been playing music since 1963. 

I had never played in a permanent fixed band with anyone but Ricky. This was since the age of 13 years. But, the first band I played guitar in, Ricky was the drummer and up until 1980 he was the only drummer I had ever played with. Joe Dan was an incredible person, he and I were very much alike and very strong personalities. We butted heads over the years and were very protective of the other guys in the band over the years. You couldn’t call this a love/hate relationship -- it was a love relationship -- just like a marriage. We fought sometimes and everyone in the band did. I did not know any of the Southern bands that did not fight. Joe Dan and I did not ever get physical but Dru and I did a couple of times. There were nights when we went onstage and literally fight with our guitars, literally in a battle with the guitars and then in to the dressing room continue it there. The next morning we would hit the road again and I think the band -- more so than any of the other bands -- we were close to we were able to rebound from whatever our problems or differences were then. I can sight you personal things that we went through in the band that were incredible as far as some of the relationships with other people, in particular in the area of females, we went through some incredible changes but the next morning we were on the road and everyone was smiling.

What do you recall about the tour with Marshall Tucker and Bonnie Bramlett in Europe? 

Well, I had such a great time I hardly remember it. It was one of those tours. (laughs) When we got into London on the first day we had been playing at the Starlight Amphitheatre right before. Actually, we had been on that tour that culminated at the end of Europe. Grinderswitch had been on the road for about 120 days straight. We had done a whole tour of the U.S. starting in the northeast, across the U.S. and all the way down through California and Texas and through the midwest, back down into Louisiana and Alabama and that whole area and then into Macon for three days of rehearsal with Bonnie and straight to Europe for one month. I do not think I had a day off for 120 days. When we got over there we had been at the Starlight and some people we had known from a motorcycle group came to the Starlight to see me and Toy (Caldwell) and said "when you get to London go to the Hard Rock Cafe, someone will meet you and be there to go with you throughout Europe.” When we got there Toy and I got a taxi and went to the Hard Rock cafe and had no idea who would meet us. Toy and I were in our usual form -- which was pretty shaky -- and we got this taxi and the driver took off like a New York taxi driver and Toy started yelling and got down in the floor board of the taxi. (laughs) Toy was screaming at the guy and hollering at me wanting out of the taxi. We went to the Hard Rock Cafe and went into the bathroom and this guy came in and said he was supposed to meet us. Toy and I both did not know how he knew we from America, but we were standing there with cowboy boots and hats on and no one else looked like that. (laughs) We were so naive we didn’t stop to consider we looked so different from everyone else. I can tell you for sure that I know all these people and no one is going to tell the true story of what happened between 1971 and 1980. It will never be told. No one will ever tell it.

I know for a fact from the many Southern Rockers that I have interviewed -- we would be off the record talking -- and they will say “well, we might as well stop at this point and not go too far because a lot of the stories could shake the foundation of families and the legal system if it was talked about.” (laughs) 

I think we were either in Paris or Scotland and the newspapers came out the next morning after the concert that night, I think we did that live album in five different countries on that tour. We would go to a country and there would be mobile trucks of stuff there waiting on us. That straight Southern Rock album was actually recorded in five different countries. But I remember waking up the next morning and the headline of the paper said something about the cowboys came to France to rock and they came on stage reeking of whiskey and hash. That sort of sums up the tour.

The tour was sponsored by Jim Beam and when we got there the first concert we played they brought in cases of Jim Beam whiskey, and the tour people were upset because we did not want to drink it. We were drinking other things and they just wanted us to drink the whiskey rather than buy something else. We finally got angry and said well, if you want us to drink this we will. That lasted about three days and then the promoters decided to get us whatever we wanted. (laughs)

With Grinderswitch how did you come to leave the band? What caused you to make that decision and what did you do after you left? 

The main thing that led to that decision was that I had a severe drug problem at that time. When I came to Grinderswitch, we started in 1972, and I think that particularly myself and Joe Dan came to the table with drug habits already. This was not a thing where our association with Southern Rock began all that -- that began years before anyone had coined Southern Rock. After a couple of years Joe Dan became completely straight. He hardly ever even had a beer. Which is amazing to me that he tolerated all of us going crazy all the time. I had gone through for a very long time and had been through a very serious drug addiction problem, as did other people involved with that whole thing -- were in the same category. The thing that was the final straw for me to finally leave the band, I had been a couple of short term treatment programs and on an extended tour with David Allan Coe. 

I had been roaring pretty heavy on the road with David. When we got home the guys in the band said I needed to check in someplace and get treated and straightened out. This was becoming a liability, legally and otherwise with the band. I knew that what they were saying was true and that I had tried treatment programs before and it did not do anything for me. I had even gone to a psychiatrist and he had refused to see me any more. I was paying someone to see me but they said they did not want to see me any more. I wished I could blame it on the drugs but the drugs were a symptom of what was going on inside of me. I had begun to realize that the lifestyle that I was leading was influencing the thousands of people that came to see us, they were emulating what we were doing. What had started in the '70s that had been an innocent party situation and had turned into a real devastation to the people around me and that people that were coming to see us. 

That thing made me stop and leave the band and stop and take a long look at what I was doing. Early on in the '70s I would go out and play when we were touring with the Brothers and we would go out onstage and everyone showed up to party and have a good time but, later on, in the latter part of the '70s, I was showing up heavily addicted and I was seeing in the eyes of the audience that they were really in the same condition I was in. In a very real way they were emulating what we were doing. The Southern Rockers are coming to town and we are all going to let out the stops and party until we can’t move any more. Unfortunately, in the early '70s those people came and did that then they sobered up and went to their jobs. But we did it over and over every night. In the later '70s I began to realize that these people had been coming around for a long time and many of them were fighting the same things we were fighting, long term alcohol and drug abuse. This was destroying our families and people’s families. People were dying around me and in the audience. I just stopped and looked at it and said is this what I want for my life and how is this the direction I want to lead other people in.

What did you do right after that?

When I left the band in December 1979, for 2 or 3 months I just sat in the house and got high. I just boarded up the doors and played my guitar and got high around the clock. I was dealing with this whole issue of where had this whole road led me to. I had destroyed my marriage and was working on destroying another marriage. I had seen everybody around me do the same thing. After 2 or 3 months of this I moved back to Florida to see if I could get myself straightened out. I moved into this mansion with some very wealthy people and instead of getting better I got worse. Everything that I had been doing was there in abundance and we just got into a perpetual party and I just could not get away from it. Then on August 20, 1980 I overdosed for the third time, this time in Florida, and I ended up in the hospital. I was in an operating room in the hospital for nine hours. Oddly enough, I knew this was where all of this was leading to. During the time I was in the operating room, my family was in the waiting room and the doctors had told them that there was no way I would survive. At some time during all of this I was out of my body watching all of this, me on the table and seeing my family and trying to talk to them but they could not hear me. I had been going through this process for about one year and all of this was going on inside me every night when I was hitting the stage. What am I doing and where is this leading me and other people. I realized that I had finally come to the end of the road and probably was going to die. 

Having been raised in the South I believed that there was a God and it had not really served me in anyway. Believing that there was a God, I was not acknowledging that. In the South, when you grow up there are Christian people around but I had never applied this to my life. The knowledge of this was not doing me any good at all. I wish I could say that I had some kind of spiritual awakening but actually what I had was a death experience. And in the midst of this I said to God that I believed he was there somewhere and if you are there put me back in that body and I will do whatever you want me to do. It was not really about religion, it was not about anything but me saying God if you are there I want to have a relationship with you. I woke up in that operating room as straight as I am now. The people in the operating room freaked out. I had fallen face first on a slate floor and busted my face open. I had been up for days freebasing cocaine and taking quaaludes with it. When I od’ed I had fallen on my face and fractured my jaw and split open my chin. When I woke up on the operating table I was still in that condition and they had not tried to repair any of the damage because they did not feel I would live. When I woke up I was totally awake and straight. They began to sew me up and put me together and I have been straight ever since that day.

I was released from the hospital the next day and have been drug and alcohol free for 21 years. I am not saying that in a pious way. I am not condemning anyone for their behavior or whatever they are doing. This is what made major changes in my life. I have never been a religious person; the dictionary describes religion as man’s search for God. I think that leading up to that point I was searching for some type of a true God and some type of Godliness because everywhere I looked was destruction. It was that day that my search for God ended and I tell people that I am not into religion and it could get you in lots of trouble. You can search down all the wrong avenues and not know God. I am not into all that stuff but I know for sure that day I was looking at myself from out of my body and I said "God if you are real, put me back into that body and it was an instantaneous thing."

So, you are looking at your relationship with God as more of a personal thing more than some labeled religion. Do you feel that going to church is the only way to be a Christian?

To begin with, from the Biblical standpoint, what makes you a Christian is accepting the fact that Christ was who he was and did what he did -- and you accept that by faith, that is what makes you a Christian. The Bible says that if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, you shall be saved. Going to church does not make you Christian. There are lots of people that go to church that are far from being Christian. I have people ask me about church and say that they do not want to go because of the corruption and greed and hypocrisy. If anyone tells me that they are not already involved in that in their life, there is no such thing. I go to church but not out of obligation. I go to meet new people and have friendships with other people.

I have always felt that the majority of people I have met in church are some of the weirdest people I have ever met. On the other hand, they are feeling the same about me. I am as weird as anyone can be when it comes to a traditional church atmosphere but I have made up my mind not to let the weirdness keep us apart. So, I deal with their weirdness and they deal with my weirdness. I go to an independent church -- it is multicultural and we are up to people of about 13 different races. There are doctors, lawyers and welfare people. This church is like the world we live in and there are about 1000 people in our church and we have grown to two services per Sunday. There are lots of traditional church people there and it is still weird. At the same time I show up there and am very involved in that Church and they feel the same way about me. They feel I am weird but that does not stop us from having common ground in getting along.

It is all humanity. Some people are not aware of it but I have been an ordained minister since 1987. I did not send off and get my papers through Playboy magazine. I take that seriously. I am able to marry people’s kids from around here. I married Joe Dan’s kids and I am able to help in times when we have deaths in the community of music here in Macon. I presided over Joe Dan’s funeral and I spoke at Sam Whiteside’s memorial and I take that seriously. At the same time I am not into religion. I think that can get you into a lot of problems. I do believe that I have an ongoing and fruitful relationship with God and I am glad that it is. The thing that burns me up most about people is that they tell me that they do not want anything to do with religion and I say “good, there is hope for you,” and number two is that people say they are not into this “God thing” and I say “how can you not be into God when you do not know anything about it?” To me, it just makes me feel bad when people tell me that because I feel like they are being totally ignorant. According to world report here is something that can potentially help you make the necessary changes to make in your life and give you some kind of eternal peace. They tell me that they want nothing to do with it and know absolutely nothing about it. 

At the same time August 19, 1980 I was in the same condition, sitting on the side of the bed freebasing cocaine and wondering what was wrong with me and what was wrong with the world. God draws people to him in such a way that people respond and people are drawn to that relationship. It is not anything that I can do and not anything that a church person can do. All we can do is be there and help to assist in that. It is not something that I can say that you need to quit what you are doing and go to church every time the doors are open. That is not any of my business and what it is is your understanding and your relationship with God that will ultimately bring you to where you need to be. All I can do is be there and answer questions and let my own life and 21-year experience with life be some sort of barometer for people as to whether or not this is true or of any benefit to them. I do not go preach to people. I would like people to observe what is going on in other’s lives and that they know that have a relationship with God. You are going to find people that are going to claim that and there is not going to be any proof of that whatsoever. 

I tell people that, by faith, I cried out to the God that might do something for me in desperation and it was not a spiritual awakening or nirvana, it was out of desperation to make a change in my life and at that point to make a change in my death. At that point I was obviously dying. The good thing about it is that since then I do not have to accept it by faith any more because I can go right down the line and prove to myself and anyone else that God is in my life and my relationship with him is real and I have proof of that. I think that people just have to accept it by faith and I think that is how God intended it to be. But it does not remain there. God will do things in your life that is incredible and lots of times He is doing those things in our life and we just do not recognize it and give Him the credit for it. We just receive the benefit from it. I know I did when I was on the operating table in 1980. I have not done anything differently except try to keep a relationship with him, keeping an open mind of communication with him and since that time my whole life has turned around. I have my own studio and I will not have to bow before another record company. I do not chase after a record company to release a product, because I am doing it for a different reason. I do it because I think that music should be something that is helpful and helps people in some way or another. At the end of 1979 I felt like the music and lifestyle I was leading was destructive to me and my family and that everybody I came into contact with on and off stage. I do not feel that way any more. 

I feel like my music is designed and made to make people to feel better and offer people some kind of hope in their relationships and their relationships with God. I am not interested in commercially exploiting it. I am interested in whoever wants it or needs it has it. That is why I give the majority of it away. In my last project I gave away 30,000 pieces or product. It was in the inner cities, Indian reservations, in foreign countries, all over Russia. We are giving away 20,000 pieces of product on the eastern border of Russia. I have been able to work with other musicians and produced a number of albums over the years now and especially over the past 4-5 years. I am producing more albums and I have a non-profit organization. Some of the people that I said were weird at church have been able to finance me going to an Indian reservation where there is absolutely no money or hope and because of the support of people around me I can financially afford to go to these places and do concerts and spend time with them and go to their homes and leave music with them that is uplifting and not have to charge them. The new product that I am working on right now, when I got ready to do this I contacted people who help me do what I do and this whole project was paid for before I even started and this was in two weeks time. This new CD project was totally paid for before I even walked into the studio. Everything in that studio is totally paid for. If people want proof that there is a God just follow me around and see what he is doing. Starting on Thursday I am going to all the prisons in Georgia with a team of others and I will be in there doing concerts in all these prisons and the only way that happens is that I make my music free of charge. Now, there is nobody that I know in the Southern Rock business that could not be doing a life sentence in prison right now. I make it a point that I am going into these places and see these guys and these are some of the guys that were seeing some of the shows that we played. It is amazing to see people that are locked up in this country that were at multiple Southern Rock concerts. Now I have a chance to give something back. These people know me through all of this and go back and give something back. Some of them are locked back in cells so far back that I can’t play for them but I get back in there and spend 15 minutes with someone who has been locked in a cell for 10 years. I am 50 years old and have made a commitment to give back to others for the next twenty years if I live that long. I appreciate all the fabulous experiences I have had throughout my life. Do I wish that I had not done the things that I did throughout the whole Southern Rock thing? No, I am not sorry, I did this and I am at the point where I do not need my ego built up and to no help of the music industry I am financially in a place where I can do what I do. 

After all the years in the industry with Capricorn I died on an operating table broke and busted. My brother, Toy Caldwell, died the same way. I can go down the list and give you names of people that went through that whole experience and ended up with nothing in the end. Do I wish I had not done it -- no -- it was an experience that very few people in this world will ever experience. But now at fifty I do not need another record out there to prove to people that I am talented and I can play, write songs, engineer. I need to go back to people less fortunate and spend time with them. I am not saying everyone needs to do that. I am not on a campaign saying that if you were in the music business in the '60s and '70s you should go back and do penance for it. This is just where life brought me to this. It is hard to hear the passion that I have for what I do over a computer. I am going to Russia soon to help some musicians in Russia produce some music and have the opportunity to make a CD. I have made a ton of them and lost count of how many I have done and I don’t even know any more but there are some people out here that have not had an opportunity to do any. And Omega Arts is a non-profit organization that helps people to find a relationship with God and utilize the art gift that God has put in them and there are no obligations or strings attached to them. In the music industry I am not as visible as I once was but it does not mean that I am not as busy as I once was. There is a difference in trying to put yourself in the spotlight and trying to be busy helping other people to achieve their goals and desires in life. I have been sunburned from the spotlight and blind from all that stuff.

It does not hold an allure for me any more. In some way everyone who steps in to the spotlight is looking for approval and acceptance. I have found approval and acceptance in my relationship with God. I don’t need that but I do not shun it. There is nothing I enjoy more than playing live but I do not need that for acceptance or approval. One of the things that I have in my studio is what Pascal said, “All of man’s miseries derive from not being able to sit in a room quietly alone.” I think that is probably one of the truer statements I have seen in my life. I have reached a place in my life where I can sit quietly in a room alone and realize that I am not alone.

This has been different from so many of the interviews that I have done and this has been really interesting to me. You have this new CD coming out -- what are your immediate future plans?

The new CD is called Wood and Steel. It is combination of blues and black gospel and Southern Rock mixed together. In the music Jack is playing with a lot of brushes and plastics instead of sticks and the majority of the album is retro as far as style and I have a combination of acoustic leads and acoustic piano. There are several people playing on it. Bonnie (Bramlett) is singing on it, Dru (Lombar) and Chuck (Leavell) are playing on it. I have a guy that used to sing with the Imperials that sang with Elvis doing some background vocals. It is a further continuation of different styles that I do. It seems like every album has to be a different slant on the blues. I wrote all the tunes and all the mixing and everything in production by myself. I have never done that and it is proving really interesting. I don’t even have an assistant. It will be interesting to see how that turns out. I am producing a project in April on a guy from Missouri, Jimmy Bratcher, and the Russian event and a festival in Memphis in June called The One Festival that deals with social awareness -- and the Cornerstone Festival in Illinois that is an alternative Christian Festival and it has about 40,000 and a five-hour blues jam. Bonnie is coming and Dru’s band and my band and Glen Kaiser’s band and I think Jimmy Nalls will join us and Craig Martin if he gets free that day. Bruce Brookshire will be there as well. That night we are doing a set as a Southern Rock of Ages set with all the Southern Rockers coming together for a jam. I am exploring the idea of having something like this on a regular basis with all of these Christian performers.

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